Spirituality and music

[StarDragonX]

I have been around people who have been deep into "New Age". 4/5 are women and all of them have been stunningly

beautiful. And these kind of "movements" have quite a "narrow" scale conserning taste for women. I don't link all the 

videos here, but I'll mention a few people, so you get the picture. Note, not all of these people have been into "New Age",

(the spiritual movement), but I just want to point out what kind of people we are talking about.

Teal Swan (has a channel on Youtube)

The Charismatic Voice (has her own Youtube channel)

Tarja Turunen fits this category. There is this "one-liner".

"There's a poison drop in this cup of man. To drink it is to follow the left-hand path." (Bless The Child, Century Child)

 

"The Left Hand Path" is some kind of occultistic ritual, which exists in real life. So, Tarja had some kind of connection to this world. 

Marco also (some occultists really like "tarot" cards). But "tarot" cards in themselves are not inherently evil. I'll link some videos. The moderator may move the videos into the correct category, if necessary. Quite a "dark path" (as sung in "Wish I had an Angel").

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsgkgL445ts&t=291s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7N8MekeH20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90z24EmXSew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDnBw7EXa3w

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Stargazer
a new link added, corrected Nw Age to New Age

[Fugazi]

20 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I have been around people who have been deep into "New Age". 4/5 are women and all of them have been stunningly

beautiful. And these kind of "movements" have quite a "narrow" scale conserning taste for women. I don't link all the 

videos here, but I'll mention a few people, so you get the picture. Note, not all of these people have been into "New Age",

(the spiritual movement), but I just want to point out what kind of people we are talking about.

Teal Swan (has a channel on Youtube)

The Charismatic Voice (has her own Youtube channel)

Tarja Turunen fits this category. There is this "one-liner".

"There's a poison drop in this cup of man. To drink it is to follow the left-hand path." (Bless The Child, Century Child)

"The Left Hand Path" is some kind of occultistic ritual, which exists in real life. So, Tarja had some kind of connection to this world. 

Marco also (some occultists really like "tarot" cards). But "tarot" cards in themselves are not inherently evil. I'll link some videos. The moderator may move the videos into the correct category, if necessary. Quite a "dark path" (as sung in "Wish I had an Angel").

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsgkgL445ts&t=291s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7N8MekeH20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90z24EmXSew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDnBw7EXa3w

 

I don't know much about New Age, except that for a couple of years when I was very young I used to listen to a lot of New Age music, but I didn't know anything about a philosophy behind the music. I still don't know anything about that.

I don't know if Tarja was connected to any of this, because after all it's Tuomas writing the lyrics. She probably had some esoteric beliefs, there was this Romanian healing man that she blindly trusted (it was mentioned in the band biography), but what else she was into is not very clear to me. Perhaps with her book coming out soon we will learn more about that side of her.

I don't know much about Tarot, and I wouldn't know where to start. If there was a "starter" album for them, which one would it be?

[StarDragonX]

I like the "Gravity Of Light" Album from Tarot. It is very well produced. Some older material is not very well produced. So "Gravity Of LIght" (2010)

is more on the "easy to listen to" -side. So this thing with this New Age thing is this. It is a very broad term to describe, for instance, 

meditation music (just normal music.) The term has also to do with religion, especially Christianity. For instance, "Anette Olzon", wrote

in her blog many years ago, that she was already visiting a (christian) church in Sweden (propably before joining Nightwish) So she was, and still is, "quote and quote" christian. Some

of todays artist have a strong spiritual life (Christian or other religions.) But speaking about faith has always been a little bit of a taboo in

the media. So the term "New Age" might refer to anything, but in the 90's it was especially a "throwing axe" term against "odd spiritual practices"

in the Christian church realm (also in Finalnd). It has spread to refer to almost anything. So there is this small "New Age" -wing, which is almost like a cult. And this is only a small portion of this "subject". I know alot about these things, so I speak about some of these things in this context. Just enough. 

Then we need to dig really deep. In Finland, classical singing is closely related to medieval "church music". What I mean is, that classical techniques originate from medieval church singing. Nightwish has a lot of classical elements.

Some of the elements date back to medieval classical composers, Bach etc. Bach was "religious." And many of the classical composers were, though not all of them. Bach wrote acronyms in his notes, which meant "To the glory of God." Note, Europe was under Catholicism, and medieval classical music is closely related to "Church music" at the time. The song "Dark Chest Of Wonders", for instance was written about Stephen King's book "This Dark Chest Of Wonders." The themes in this some share a striking resemblance to passages in the bible about "The Ark Of The Covenant". So some of the songs actually contain strong, heavy biblical, themes. For instance, blessings were a big thing (and still are) in jewish culture. So,

"Bless The Child" refers quite heavily to "Judaism" (and other similar religions.) NOTE, Nightwish has close ties with "Within Temptaion." And

Sharon Den Adel, of course is Jewish. Within Temptation contains strong "Judeo-Christian" themes also. But Tuomas doesn't want to represent himself "only" as a "Religious" person. He wants to compose music (which anybody and everybody can listen to.). So in short, stupid "theological" discussions can be found in Nightwish's

And WIthin Temptaion's Youtube comments etc. For instance "how should an artist dress modestly" (this discussion has been active since the death of Christ.) That is why comments need to be disabled on some of the metal videos. On top of that, Heavy Metal as a genre accepts "expression of faith" by nature. Sharon Den Adel has said, that she feels "accepted" in the heavy metal scene (apart from some other genres.)

In some cases or places if you say, that you are "Christian", "Buddhist", "Muslim" or whatever, you get the shoe instantly. Sometimes the other way around. So, if you say you are an atheist, you get the shoe from some "spiritual" places. This, as an introduction (TLDR). 

Edit: In many places, this text would be "banned" immediately, and I might recieve a personal ban just for posting this.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Stargazer

[StarDragonX]

 

[Fugazi]

I'm sure there's a lot to say about Nightwish and religion, but we know Tuomas came out with Troy saying that he's openly secular. There is religious imagery aplenty in his lyrics but I'm sure it's just another way for Tuomas to express strong emotions without him actually adhering to most of the concepts behind the imagery.

Anyway, I think this is pretty far removed from the discussion Lacuna Coil, so I'm moving the discussion to a separate topic! 😉

[StarDragonX]

Yes, what I meant was, that Tuomas has spiritual and religius themes in his works. I did'nt express myself very clearly. So even though he is "secular", he has spiritual themes in and I respect that he has the courage to address other than "safe" or "secular" themes. Maybe we could call him a "philosopher", who wants to do music about a lot of subjects (religion, science, art, theatre, and "cavemen".) I like that here are varities of subjects in his albums and work. I am maybe more on the "religious" side, but for some reason I like many songs on "Endless Forms Most Beautiful", and Richard Dawkin's voice is very soothing on the album :). As we say, we have "freedom of religion" in the finnish law. Everybody may believe what they want.

[Fugazi]

I agree with you there, Tuomas is confident enough to explore all the aspects of the human being, dark or bright, physical or spiritual. Then like with every piece of art, everyone is free to find their own meanings. 

[StarDragonX]

After roughly 2 (edit: okay, maybe 4) years, I would like to add a little bit of clarification, after 1000 more songs listened. 😄I stated Tuomas being religious or even "Christian". But maybe I could say that Tuomas is very sensitive to religious or other themes apart from secularism. He has somewhat biblical themes in some earlier works. I didn't mean to label Tuomas in any specific category, secular or religious. I just tried to say he is sometimes open to spiritual themes, including christianity (and others.)

Finland has a long history with shamanism and this kind of spiritual activity and it is more prevalent still today in Finnish culture today than in USA, for example. Allthough many finns confess to be secular, it is not exactly the same thing as being secular in USA. It is a little bit on the religious side here always, in my opinion. But as you said, Fugazi, Tuomas expresses these influences very well and the atmosphere. I have some additional Nightwish songs, which have an interesting atomsphere in general. Some of them are a little bit difficult to find. Here is maybe 2 of Tuomas' most "Christian" works, "Gethsemane" and "Pharaoh Sails To Orion." The line "In the day you see my face, you shall surely die!" is from the bible, where Moses is talking to Pharaoh according to the story. (Exodus 10:28). This atmosphere is by the way what I love about old Nightwish. Also, Black Metal Listeners think that Oceanborn is the best Nightwish album, for some reason, haha. That's what I have heard.

 

Also, I have met in my Christian circles people who have left hardcore occultism. I was just stating earlier that Tarja in the early days had a really "dark" atmosphere around here, at least in the recordings and live DVD's, including End Of An Era. And I kind of like that kind of style, as a male, if you get what I mean. 😄 I was not accusing Nightwish members or any other person of anything in a negative sense. So some Finnish songs have this atmosphere in them, as they sound a little bit of a video game spell or something. It is one kind of an atmosphere.

 

Edited May 19 by StarDragonX
Corrected some grammar

[StarDragonX]

Here is a song I like in this sense also. The line "Where where you last night" is a old reference what german soldiers started asking one another after the 2nd world war. This is spoken knowledge, it is very hard to find from the internet. But anyway, after the 2nd world war people wanted to party. This song is a cover song of "Where Were You Last Night" (1989) by swedish artist Ankie Bagger. The political disco song was a genre in the 80's at least in germany and other places. But the political meaning has somewhat faded away during the years, which is actually a good thing. Also, I love how Tarja is dressed up as an angel in the picture. You know, I had a religious angelic vision, but it was Tarja Turunen after all! It is from the single release "I Wish I Had An Angel." Pun intended.😄

 

 

 

Here is also the somewhat rare song "10th Man Down" from the EP "Over The Hills And Far Away", which tells about war time. I won't delve more into Finnish nationalism at this point... There is also a Buenos Aires version in the "Live in Buenos Aires" Blu-Ray or something like that.

 

 

Edited May 18 by StarDragonX
Corrected some grammar

[StarDragonX]

As an addition, here is the famous "Over The Hills And Far Away" song. It is a cover song originally from Gary Moore's album Wild Frontier (1986). The theme is a little hard to understand maybe, but the song speaks about Finnish culture and genealogy. It is supposed to bring a sense of community for Finnish people. I think this is one reason why Tarja is so popular in Finland as a Nightwish singer, because there is the community aspect. Tarja in Nightwish represents the Finnish community, and then Anette and especially Floor are international picks from Tuomas. I think the boat in the video is a Norweigian viking boat. I don't really know if we had that exact model in Finland 1000 years ago, but seems like it doesn't really matter here. 😄 The sword fight is really cool...

 

 

Here is also the masterpiece "Sleeping Sun" from the album ONCE (2004). This was right before Tarja was kicked out. The red flag is "definitely not a Hong Kong flag" as that was spoken about year 2005, as nowadays also. Why do artist always want to make a change by having these "hidden" references? The video has aged surprisingly well.

 

Edited May 19 by StarDragonX